The Story of JQT Vancouver Canada & Carmel Tanaka: Jewish, Queer, and Japanese - Part A
In this first conversation, Michael Ross and Carmel Tanaka discuss her role as the founder of JQT Vancouver, a unique non-profit advocating for inclusivity in Jewish queer spaces. They delve into Carmel's identity as both Japanese-Canadian and Jewish, exploring how these intersections shape her activism and community work.
Introduction to Carmel’s identity, activism, and the creation of JQT Vancouver. Key Themes: intersection of Jewish and queer identities, challenges in Jewish LGBTQ+ community acceptance, current Conservatism vs. liberalism in Canadian Jewish communities.
Takeaways:
- Carmel Tanaka emphasizes the importance of creating inclusive spaces for LGBTQ+ individuals within Jewish communities.
- The intersection of Carmel's Japanese and Jewish identities profoundly influences her activism and community engagement.
- JQT Vancouver’s mission is to provide a safe haven for queer Jewish individuals to express their identities.
- The conversation highlights the ongoing challenges of acceptance and representation in Jewish LGBTQ+ spaces.
- Carmel shares her personal connections to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, enriching her perspective on activism.
- The podcast underscores the need for nuanced discussions around identity, politics, and community in today's world.
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Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Let's talk for and about the LGBT communities around the world.
Michael Ross:I'm Michael Ross and this is Straight Friendly.
Michael Ross:She's a community engagement professional and is the founder and executive director of JQT Vancouver, a 100% volunteer run Jewish, queer and trans charitable nonprofit in Canada dedicated to queering Jewish spaces and Jewifying queer spaces.
Michael Ross:Carmel Tanaka.
Michael Ross:Hello.
Michael Ross:Hello.
Carmel Tanaka:Hi.
Michael Ross:Good to have you here.
Carmel Tanaka:Thanks for having me.
Michael Ross:Oh my God, we're just doing it.
Michael Ross:Carmel, I'm so glad to have you here.
Michael Ross:And I just started like I landed so somehow on you once.
Michael Ross:I only arrived to Canada after a whole year of like no matting all around after this crazy year that started and here then I found some, some little sister almost, I would say, where we've been like sharing so many stuff.
Michael Ross:I will never, never, ever forget our first conversation.
Michael Ross:The I felt like some of my hours listeners should also have the privilege of a bit talking with you.
Michael Ross:So I'm really, really, really glad, my dear.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm honored.
Carmel Tanaka:You know, you were in the middle of nowhere, Hope, British Columbia when you contacted me.
Carmel Tanaka:And so I just feel like we connected so beautifully and I'm excited to.
Michael Ross:Continue and we found so many things in common.
Michael Ross:And we will be talking here, of course, about J Cutie and also about your activism, which is involving so many different subjects that all of them are very interesting.
Michael Ross:But I have to say that I also, I connected with you by soul.
Michael Ross:You know, it's not only about an interest about a subject.
Michael Ross:And actually I'm just now telling you a surprise that and Carmel had no idea before that.
Michael Ross:I'm also launching a new podcast about Jewish LGBTQ life.
Michael Ross:And you're actually one of the first, very first guests and so prize.
Michael Ross:So welcome both to Straight Friendly Global, but also to this new podcast about Jewish life, lgbtq, Jewish life around the world.
Michael Ross:And it was important for me to start with you because the first time we talked, like there was like this kind of like blast connection of like, oh my God, someone here really can understand me and I can really understand that other person without even meeting each other before.
Michael Ross:Right?
Carmel Tanaka:Mazel tov.
Carmel Tanaka:This is so exciting.
Michael Ross:Mazal Tov.
Michael Ross:Kapara.
Michael Ross:Kapara.
Michael Ross:Luckily we are recording remotely, so I cannot just jump on you and hug you.
Michael Ross:Okay, so we will be talking about.
Michael Ross:Yes, a virtual hug.
Michael Ross:A virtual hug.
Michael Ross:So we'll be talking about jqt.
Michael Ross:There are so many stuff that we have to talk about.
Michael Ross:And also for you, I discovered also something which I've never knew about, which.
Michael Ross:And it's like this term of Japanese.
Michael Ross:So we have to start with that.
Michael Ross:I mean like, tell us a bit because Carmel is really like a combination of so many different identities and opinions and.
Michael Ross:Yeah, let's, let's, let's start.
Carmel Tanaka:I'll take it away for those who are watching or listening.
Carmel Tanaka:My full name is Carmel Tanaka and so my first name is Hebrew and my last name is Japanese.
Carmel Tanaka:My mother is Ashkenazi Israeli from Haifa.
Carmel Tanaka:And so there's no surprise that I would be named Carmel after the mountain.
Carmel Tanaka:And then my father is Japanese Canadian, third generation, so that makes me a Yonsei, a fourth generation Japanese Canadian.
Carmel Tanaka:And I've recently discovered that they come from a pre 100 to 120 years ago called Fukuoka on Kyushu island of Japan.
Michael Ross:Wow, that's.
Michael Ross:Wow.
Michael Ross:Tell me, did you invent that term of a Japanese or how did you find that?
Michael Ross:Like I love that.
Carmel Tanaka:So that's a great question.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm working on an oral history project called the Japanese Project where I interview Jewish and Japanese individuals, couples and families all over the world.
Carmel Tanaka:So far I've got over 80 plus interviews and the first time I heard this term Japanese I probably was in actually University of Tel Aviv.
Carmel Tanaka: So this would have been circa: Carmel Tanaka:There was a lovely student from California, San Diego who introduced me to this term and I latched onto it immediately because this felt appropriate to say Japanese as opposed to half Japanese and half Jewish or these fractions, which I'm neither.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm fully Jewish and I'm fully Japanese.
Carmel Tanaka:However, during the interviews of the oral history project, some people started to take claims being the first to coin the term Japanese.
Carmel Tanaka: started in California, early: Michael Ross:Oh wow, wow, that's so interesting.
Michael Ross:And you're involved in so many different subjects and also with your name Carmel, we found some similarities with East European background, apparently also living in Israel.
Michael Ross:I was born and raised in Israel.
Michael Ross:For you it was definitely like living for several years, right?
Michael Ross:And also in some other parts of the country.
Michael Ross:And actually my last stop in Israel was Haifa as well.
Michael Ross:And I think that also what we found in common and I felt very comfortable talking with you, it's about the crazy year after October 7th.
Michael Ross:Now I know that this is not the focus of our episode now, but I think that this is something that we cannot, we cannot deny or ignore because yes, it's like affecting all of us and some of the listeners are maybe not in that much in the field and Maybe I think it is important that we will be a bit sharing.
Michael Ross:I I have to say that until recent year I had a law that a rule that I'm not dealing with politics and political parties or politicians in my podcasts and I'm that I'm avoiding some subjects but with Israeli one maybe I was a bit more tricky but with English one I didn't And I think it's like the last year has I I'm not sure if I have enough words to explain my feelings, my thoughts, especially in the intersection of the Jewish identities and the LGBTQ + identities and the so many different identities which I think which is what is very beautiful.
Michael Ross:But for me as someone who was but his ex boyfriend is Israeli Palestinian, I felt like that a lot of the discourse like I couldn't really be myself since October 7th, really couldn't be completely myself neither in Israel, neither abroad without canceling some of the stuff and I didn't want to and also as what you said about being let's say a Japanese it's not about being health, health.
Michael Ross:It's full of this and that.
Michael Ross:So and this is something which I think is very, very interesting and I'm an Israeli who's just suddenly exploring Canada and some other countries and I'm still learning.
Michael Ross:But I think that from your side like you have some different perspective or experience than I have although that we've been few years in Israel and although we do share some similar stuff.
Michael Ross:But I want to like what is your perspective and feeling like what was for you that year and and how do you combine your activism, your views with some stuff that for some people might seem as contradicting each other.
Michael Ross:Not from my side by the way.
Carmel Tanaka:What a question.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean how much time you got?
Carmel Tanaka:It's been a really difficult year for me personally and I have seen how it impacts me in a negative but also a lot of my community members, particularly in the Jewish and queer community, I can dive into how that affects me professionally in a minute.
Carmel Tanaka:But I'm going to take a moment to talk about how it was for me personally.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm one of the very few Israelis that I know in the Jewish queer community in Vancouver, where I reside, where I live.
Carmel Tanaka:And so my connection to Israelis and who attended say for example the NOVA party or who has been impacted by the continuing war is different for than a lot of other people that are here.
Carmel Tanaka:I have deeply personal connections.
Carmel Tanaka:My first cousin's son was in attendance the party and since then I've learned of friends of friends and Family, friends who have been all impacted.
Carmel Tanaka:And of course my family and friends live in bomb shelters these days.
Carmel Tanaka:So that was my immediate experience, was just wanting to make sure that my family and friends were safe while a lot of people here were starting to turn to activism, protesting, wanting to stop what's going on.
Carmel Tanaka:And I wasn't in that mental space yet.
Carmel Tanaka:I was still just on WhatsApp.
Carmel Tanaka:I was messaging friends, just seeing if they're alive.
Carmel Tanaka:I was in a very different place and it was tough because they tell you to help with your mental health, go on walks, go outside.
Carmel Tanaka:And every time I would go out I would see stickers on lamp posts or posters of the hostages being defaced with swastikas or ripped from vandals.
Carmel Tanaka:So it didn't matter where I went in order to free my mind, I was constantly reminded and inundated and re triggered.
Carmel Tanaka:So there was nowhere other than my own home, the safety of my own home.
Carmel Tanaka:And as a result, I hermitted for a year inside my little hobbit hole here in Vancouver.
Carmel Tanaka:And my social circle became and still remains quite small, only to a trusted queue.
Carmel Tanaka:Those who have a capacity to feel compassion for all victims of the war, not just one group who have the ability to offer or think with critical thinking and nuanced ideas and perspectives and are not interested in mansplaining you or trying to change and waiver your.
Carmel Tanaka:Your personal experience are trying to tell you that your pain doesn't matter.
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah, so there's that.
Carmel Tanaka:That was my personal experience which came along with both family and friendship ruptures because not everyone has or shares the same opinion across the board.
Carmel Tanaka:And I recognize that there's a full spectrum of opinion in the Jewish community and also outside of the Jewish community.
Carmel Tanaka:Although it feels very one sided these days.
Carmel Tanaka:Outside of the Jewish community.
Carmel Tanaka:And so then professionally running a Jewish, queer and trans charitable nonprofit during this time has presented itself with immense challenges.
Carmel Tanaka:Pressure from both the Jewish community as well as the queer community to take particular stance on the conflict.
Carmel Tanaka:And at jqd we don't.
Carmel Tanaka:Our stance is that we acknowledge that there's a full breadth of experiences, opinions, and some people don't even want to express an opinion.
Carmel Tanaka:For them it's a non issue.
Carmel Tanaka:They've never set foot in Israel.
Carmel Tanaka:For them it's a moot point.
Carmel Tanaka:So our focus is to ensure that we create safer queer Jewish spaces so that queer Jewish people can celebrate all of themselves and not have to hide any one particular identity in order to fit in.
Michael Ross:I think that many people don't even realize the so much of pressure that so many of us are, are going from in.
Michael Ross:First of all, especially for people who I think that for any human and I so much agree with you that it's like it's about human rights, it's about human life and this kind of discourse of choosing sides like it's some football game.
Michael Ross:And that for some people or groups that are not even personally involved with that, but they have a very strong opinion.
Michael Ross:And I would say that also for me, there was some feeling of even some kind of betray.
Michael Ross:Because if you are a human rights activist, you are a human rights activist, not only one kind of human or make the differentiation.
Michael Ross:So.
Michael Ross:So yeah, and, and I can say that as, as an Israeli, but I've been always very much in contact.
Michael Ross:I've been always traveling a lot.
Michael Ross:I've been always working on expanding my views.
Michael Ross:And for instance, for me, what is very, very impactful was the discovering almost a decade ago, the cbst, the Queer Synagogue in New York, that was the place for me where for the first time I could connect between both my gay queer identities with my Jewish identities.
Michael Ross:And in Israel, the discourse is very much.
Michael Ross:It's like it's your either queer secular completely, or you're like Orthodox.
Michael Ross:Like there's.
Michael Ross:It's very difficult to find something in between.
Michael Ross:And I thought that I'm.
Michael Ross:I'm more open and more like many times in my Hebrew podcast, I talk about those experiences from that I had in those synagogues, especially also this year, and I went also to Toronto in Canada.
Michael Ross:It's very different than the US we'll talk also about that.
Michael Ross:But also this year I learned that maybe I'm not so close to some of the communities that I fought or was hoping for.
Michael Ross:And for me, what I learned during the last months, including here, while being in Canada, and I do find Canada to be very liberal compared to many countries, let's say.
Michael Ross:But at the same time, I also discovered that the Israeli communities and the Jewish communities are not necessarily the same.
Michael Ross:Right.
Michael Ross:So how do you see it from your side?
Michael Ross:And I think maybe like I only now realize that you said that, like the fact that you know personally some people who've been affected, which is also my case, and I think, I'm not sure if we even talked about it, but maybe because we look at the situation as something which is also personal, like something which is like we know the human beings.
Michael Ross:So maybe this makes for us, the views to be more complicated and difficult, but maybe more close to reality than.
Carmel Tanaka:Someone yeah, we don't see them as football players.
Carmel Tanaka:We see them as our family and friends, which is very different.
Carmel Tanaka:And I think that would change a lot of people's perspectives if it were their family and friends who are being directly impacted.
Carmel Tanaka:You're talking about what my views are or stances on Jewish community in Canada.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean, we could get into some typical Canadian politics, which is know, east coast versus west coast.
Carmel Tanaka:We could talk about city versus rural points of views.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean there's a huge diversity within Canada alone.
Carmel Tanaka:Lots of different people.
Carmel Tanaka:But within the Jewish community, I would say that there's many different denominations, there's many different subgroups, but all in all, I would say the majority is more conservative than what you would find in the U.S.
Carmel Tanaka:in fact, on most issues, when it comes to same sex marriage or to intermarriage, God forbid, we are definitely 10 to 15 years behind some of the more progressive Jewish movements in the US here in Canada.
Carmel Tanaka:So I'm not surprised that your experience being here in a liberal progressive country and experiencing some Jewish conservatism, that is for sure.
Carmel Tanaka:Although you would say, many would say that west coast Jewish community is more progressive than liberal.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean, I've spent time in Toronto, I've spent time in Montreal and very much feels same same in many ways.
Michael Ross:And you've been also living in the us if I remember correct.
Michael Ross:Yeah, in so many places.
Michael Ross:Maybe also one more thing that is connected between us.
Michael Ross:And I think it's also important to mention the fact that Canada is huge.
Michael Ross:When I took a flight from Vancouver to Toronto, I was sure it will be like half an hour, one hour.
Michael Ross:I didn't realize it's gonna be halfway across the world.
Michael Ross:But like we say the term community but it's not like just as I say with LGBTQ plus communities.
Michael Ross:And it's not one community.
Michael Ross:There are many different communities.
Michael Ross:And that's the thing world so, so beautiful.
Michael Ross:The, the diversity is around that and also from, from my research.
Michael Ross:So in Toronto we have around 300,000 Jewish people, while in Vancouver in the west coast it is way, way, way, way, way smaller.
Michael Ross:Like almost like just only if I remember correct, it's around only 10% of that like the statistics are, were conducted before the Hamas Israel war and the Hezbollah war.
Michael Ross:And probably it's changing because there are so many Israelis arriving now to Canada due to its policies and the war visa, both for Israelis and for Palestinians.
Michael Ross:So even when talking about Vancouver, it's still like you think that it's like a very progressive or west and big Community, but actually it's quite, quite of a small community.
Michael Ross:Right, communities.
Michael Ross:And you're saying that it's also 15 years behind.
Michael Ross:I didn't know that by the way, at all.
Michael Ross:And I talk with so many.
Carmel Tanaka:I'll give you an example.
Carmel Tanaka:So intermarriage in the Reform movement in the U.S.
Carmel Tanaka:well, they accept that.
Carmel Tanaka:They also accept patrilineal Jews, but that's not the case here.
Carmel Tanaka:There's still, there's now efforts to move forward.
Carmel Tanaka:What?
Michael Ross:I'm sorry, the patrilineal Jews?
Michael Ross:What do you mean?
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah, so to recognize Jewish people who have, say a father who is Jewish and a mother, that is not, but to still consider them to be Jewish.
Michael Ross:So in Canada, what it's like compared to us or in the Reform movement.
Carmel Tanaka:The Reform movement doesn't recognize patrilineal dissents in Canada yet.
Carmel Tanaka:And it's up to the boards of each synagogue, I mean as a national movement, as the Reform movement in North America, they do recognize it, but it's still up to each synagogue.
Michael Ross:The production of this episode came to reality thanks to the support of the Friedrich Naumann foundation for Freedom in Jerusalem.
Michael Ross:So you know, whenever I talk with entrepreneurs or what I like to call change makers because entrepreneurship is not only about startups, but it's also about creating non profits campaigns.
Michael Ross:And I always say, and it took me lots of years to realize that change making also starts with some internal change making with some self development.
Michael Ross:And it's very important that for change makers that are affecting other people, that we will start also from ourselves, let's say.
Michael Ross:And it starts by always like from what I find that best entrepreneurs or change makers are those who solve or try to solve real problems and not just go and try to make money or not.
Michael Ross:And like we are now talking about J Cutie, which is a 100 volunteer only volunteers, I wish for you and hope for you that it will enlarge too much more than that.
Michael Ross:And not only volunteers because you're doing something very, very, very important.
Michael Ross:And I wanted to ask first is what problem or problems you saw?
Michael Ross:Maybe first of all from your side, your personal view as a change maker, but also of course the problems that you saw that other people are facing with.
Michael Ross:So what were these problems that led to the solution of creating jqd?
Carmel Tanaka:Oh, this is a multi pronged answer.
Carmel Tanaka:So I hope you're ready.
Carmel Tanaka:So I first got involved with Jewish LGBTQ celebration of Pride when I was working professionally in community engagement in the Jewish community Pride, Vancouver Pride particularly, and the marching in Pride was part of my roster.
Carmel Tanaka:It was one of my files.
Carmel Tanaka:And I felt very honored to be the person behind the scenes to organize this.
Carmel Tanaka:And in many ways at the time, I wasn't out as queer yet, even though I led a very queer life already up until that point, I thought I had bypassed the need to have a coming out story.
Carmel Tanaka:I thought we had progressed far enough in society where my friends and family already knew there was.
Carmel Tanaka:I wasn't hiding it, nor was I attaching to a particular letter.
Carmel Tanaka:So in many ways, I guess I was a Trojan horse for the Jewish community.
Carmel Tanaka:But I also did it because, and I think this is something that we have talked about.
Carmel Tanaka:My dear cousin, Nir Katz in Tel Aviv was murdered in a shooting, the Bar Noir shooting.
Carmel Tanaka:And he was murdered because of homophobia.
Carmel Tanaka:And it really impacted me.
Carmel Tanaka:And just in general, the rights of LGBTQ people and, you know, being free to love whomever they want to love.
Carmel Tanaka:And so this was a way to honor his memory.
Carmel Tanaka:And so JQD actually developed out of me recognizing that we're not just queer or part of the LGBTQ community for one day or one week or one month out of the year.
Carmel Tanaka:It's 365 days of the year.
Carmel Tanaka:And I was already, I guess, anti performative allyship back then.
Carmel Tanaka: And so in: Carmel Tanaka:And that's how JQD started.
Carmel Tanaka:It was in near Katz's memory and initially, and he was a huge supporter of wanting to help youth who were questioning their identity.
Carmel Tanaka:And so this, for me felt like a very natural way to honor him.
Carmel Tanaka:And then as we developed from just a grassroots community, just a small group of volunteers, into a charity, today we've now really expanded and through proper community assessments and speaking with our community, we now know what the needs of our community are.
Carmel Tanaka:So, for example, proper inclusion of Jewish, queer and trans seniors.
Carmel Tanaka: up until, what was it, Covid: Carmel Tanaka:And that's when we learned that long term care homes, hospice care, even the hospital is very Christian centric here in bc.
Carmel Tanaka:And there were demands or requests from our elders to create Jewish, queer and trans friendly housing for them.
Carmel Tanaka:And as a group of volunteers with at the time, $500 in our bank account.
Carmel Tanaka:We knew that that was not possible to achieve.
Carmel Tanaka:You know, building care homes can be a 20 year project, costs tons of money.
Carmel Tanaka:So we knew that our best efforts were to advocate and to make changes with existing institutions and the existing infrastructure for senior care in our province.
Carmel Tanaka:And that led to the formation of the JQD Seniors Initiative, a seniors resource guide which essentially provides information of what a Jewish, queer and trans senior in B.C.
Carmel Tanaka: d cannot plan for in the year: Carmel Tanaka: At the time, now: Carmel Tanaka:Will their trans and non binary bodies be respected in both the liturgy and in the ground and in ceremony?
Carmel Tanaka:And it's complicated because a lot of people who are in the JQD community and also the greater Jewish community here in North America are in mixed marriages and intermarriage may be okay in life as long as you're paying membership dues to the various different synagogues, but in death this becomes a very taboo subject because your non Jewish partner that you've shared your life with, who has come to synagogue with you, your children have been a part of synagogue life.
Carmel Tanaka:That person is not allowed to be buried with you.
Carmel Tanaka:It could be in an adjacent cemetery that might be married to a synagogue cemetery if you're lucky, but it's usually not within the cemetery grounds of a Jewish cemetery.
Carmel Tanaka:And so people don't know this until the time comes their death comes.
Carmel Tanaka:And family members need to rush extremely quickly.
Carmel Tanaka:They have 24 hours before the body needs to go into the ground.
Carmel Tanaka:And in that time, that is not long enough to educate yourself on what can and cannot be available to you in a Jewish and queer and trans context.
Carmel Tanaka:So we asked the hard questions on behalf of our community and put it into a resource guide that allows people to make informed decisions.
Carmel Tanaka:And the best thing to have come from this is people now, I think have less anxiety because there were a lot of unknowns before.
Carmel Tanaka:Not everyone is a member, a paying member of a Jewish synagogue and many are unaffiliated and just simply didn't think that a Jewish burial was possible for them.
Carmel Tanaka:And now they know it is possible with some concessions.
Carmel Tanaka:But now they have to navigate if their non Jewish partner can also be with them.
Carmel Tanaka:So little by little we do have, you know, some recent wins.
Carmel Tanaka:The COVID Kadisha here in Vancouver, preemptively as a member of the JQD Seniors Initiative, has accepted non binary liturgy in advance of A non binary death.
Carmel Tanaka:They know and we told them more trans and more non binary people will be dying in the Jewish community moving forward.
Carmel Tanaka:Best to prepare now rather than feel this rush to create an ad hoc committee to figure out how to do this.
Carmel Tanaka:Everything's super rush rush when someone dies, do it before someone dies.
Michael Ross:I see this even as something which is a very Jewish thing to do.
Michael Ross:You know, like sometimes there can be this discourse about is it Jewish or not Jewish, is it like according to the.
Michael Ross:Or not.
Michael Ross:But I think if going to our essence actually like vodka, the respect of the dead is so much important that actually what you're doing here is about actually touching the very base of being Jewish and the Jewish culture.
Michael Ross:And I think it is, it is much stronger and more important than.
Michael Ross:I mean like, I'm quite sure that Kvodomet is more important than someone's identity.
Michael Ross:In my, in my opinion, like, like what you're doing actually, you're like, you're transforming to be even more Jewish than it is in some way.
Michael Ross:It is more liberal, but it is more Jewish in some way.
Michael Ross:No.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm really impressed, to be honest, that I even received answers from some of the most orthodox stakeholders when it comes to Jewish burial and death, that they respected J.
Carmel Tanaka:Cutie in my position enough to provide this answer.
Carmel Tanaka:And I do think it's because death is the most important issue and being able to educate not only the Jewish community on the importance of being buried Jewishly for those who want to be buried Jewishly, but also we can, in advance of death, help healthcare people providing who are caregivers, who are providing medical assistance, who are providing emotional assistance, spiritual assistance to seniors so that they can be able to provide more inclusive care for Jewish, queer and trans seniors.
Carmel Tanaka:Right now in our provincial healthcare, no health care authority asks if someone is part of the LGBTQ community.
Carmel Tanaka:And so they don't even know.
Carmel Tanaka:And I understand that person centered care is a hot trendy word these days in health care.
Carmel Tanaka:How can you be truly providing person centered care if you don't know one of the identities of the people that you're caring for?
Carmel Tanaka:And the argument that we keep hearing from healthcare providers is you're a human with blood and a heartbeat and we will provide you the same care no matter who you are.
Carmel Tanaka:However, that might not meet the emotional, mental, physical and spiritual needs of the individual.
Carmel Tanaka:So.
Carmel Tanaka:And we know that our work can be translated into any particular community that has more than one identity that is not part of the Christian centric majority here in Canada.
Carmel Tanaka:So we're optimistic that this will be used in a way to help educate people.
Carmel Tanaka:We're offering training now of healthcare providers.
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah, I had no idea that I would be going from an events based JQD group, volunteers where just trying to find my basher to social services and offering support into some of the most marginalized people in our community.
Michael Ross:And for me it sounds like there's still so much more to do.
Michael Ross:And from what I've been learning, like Canada is it's not only big geographically, but we're talking about around more than 40 million citizens that live here.
Michael Ross:And for me it was very surprising.
Michael Ross:I have to say that when I was looking for a queer synagogue, I found only one.
Michael Ross:And you know, I would compare it a little bit with the hospitals for instance and Venetia, of course.
Michael Ross:It's very difficult to make comparison between a death and life institute, like a hospital with something which is more spiritual and maybe so only social, I think.
Michael Ross:Or not only like a synagogue.
Michael Ross:Also for me, I would say like it's like many times people ask why do you need your own synagogue?
Michael Ross:Why do you need your own stuff?
Michael Ross:I mean like first of all, if there are some stuff, it means that there is a demand, that there is a need.
Michael Ross:So if there is a need, it didn't happen.
Michael Ross:Sounds probably, but it's natural in my view at least.
Michael Ross:That's also what Yuvano Harari says quite a lot in his historical books.
Michael Ross:And I would say that for me it was very surprising that according to my research and we've been talking about it together and I've been also talking with the cantor of Shirley Beno in Toronto, but it seems like Cheryl, Cheryl, she's really, really, really, really, really amazing.
Michael Ross:And like that.
Michael Ross:I went there by the way, twice also for Yom Kippur and I cannot explain how much it is much more spiritual when for me at least being in a place where it is more targeted towards, towards you.
Michael Ross:And I understand that there are some synagogues which are friendly and opening up.
Michael Ross:Thank you.
Michael Ross:Took some time.
Michael Ross:But my perspective, and also as the name of my podcast and stuff is a straight, friendly perspective.
Michael Ross:I mean like there's something very strong with the fact that like it's queer and it's also friendly for vibers.
Michael Ross:I think that that statement is important and seems like we still have lot of, lots of steps to do.
Michael Ross:Surprisingly also here in Canada that it's, let's say adoption rights here are much better than in Israel.
Michael Ross:Like it's almost full, you know, like it seems like for an Israeli arriving here, what?
Michael Ross:It's all probably perfect and stuff.
Michael Ross:No, things are a bit more complicated in reality.
Carmel Tanaka:I have something to share with you.
Carmel Tanaka:It's not going to change the narrative that we've just created, but it will offer just more complexity into this conversation.
Carmel Tanaka:So one of the things that I want to dive deeper into and this was part of the oral history project I did for JQD was to document adoption and surrogacy to Jewish families here in B.C.
Carmel Tanaka:and one of the most interesting finds I found is typically Israeli men who are at the time were looking to expand their families were able to have their children converted in Conservative synagogues before same sex marriage was even allowed in the Conservative movement.
Michael Ross:Oh wow, how dumb.
Carmel Tanaka:Which is fascinating.
Carmel Tanaka:And you would think, well, we know that Conservative conversions are the ones that are recognized along with Orthodox conversions by Israel and that Reform and Reconstructionist renewal, maybe Reform Reform now, but at least I know historically did not consider those to be full Jewish conversions.
Carmel Tanaka: nt that was recognized was in: Carmel Tanaka:There were before in Victoria, but you know, oh, this is all outlined in the oral history project which I really recommend people to check out.
Carmel Tanaka:It's at JQDVancouver CA.
Carmel Tanaka:We really document the 100 years of Jewish, queer and trans history.
Carmel Tanaka:All the, you know, those different synagogues and denominations at different times, trying to advocate for it, you know, going ahead with some ceremonies that split communities in half.
Carmel Tanaka:And then, you know, this is all documented in the Jewish archives too, which is really wonderful that the, you know, the Jewish newspapers at the time were recording this feud and of course there were splinter communities and yada, yada, yada.
Carmel Tanaka: ecognized gay marriage was in: Carmel Tanaka:So that's fascinating.
Michael Ross:That's really, really, really interesting.
Michael Ross:We will also live here.
Michael Ross:You will send me the link and also we will try to put it also in the description of this episode that people will be able to see also.
Michael Ross:And I would also ask how can people be involved or assist to your activism and the very important issues that you are dealing with?
Carmel Tanaka:The simplest way would be to visit our website jqtvancouver Ca.
Carmel Tanaka:There's contact details there.
Carmel Tanaka:Send us an email, let us know, you know, if you're a local in Vancouver.
Carmel Tanaka:Even if you are not local to Vancouver, we'd love to hear from you.
Carmel Tanaka:Whether it's involved in the JQD Seniors initiative in our mental health support series.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean there's lots going on at JQD and we don't pretend to be a cross Canada organization as there are other Jewish queer groups in Canada.
Carmel Tanaka:However, that doesn't mean just because you don't live locally in Vancouver, you can help us out.
Michael Ross:Yeah.
Michael Ross:So most of the say like are you looking for, for donations for buying like or like signing up for a newsletter or social media how people can be engaged and help with what you do and also some of the stuff, let's say the cooperation is also very important.
Michael Ross:So what else can people do to.
Michael Ross:To be part of what you're doing, to be part of a solutions?
Carmel Tanaka:We have a monthly newsletter that you can sign up for on our website.
Carmel Tanaka:You can also make a monthly donation or even a one time donation.
Carmel Tanaka:We'll accept your money.
Carmel Tanaka:We are Canada's first homegrown Jewish, queer and trans charity.
Carmel Tanaka:So we are able to offer tax receipts which is a huge win for us.
Carmel Tanaka:It takes a long time to become a charity or to be designated as a charity.
Michael Ross:I would say thank you.
Carmel Tanaka:Thank you.
Carmel Tanaka:I mean it's taken many years.
Carmel Tanaka:We've been.
Carmel Tanaka: Since: Michael Ross:Wow.
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah, wow.
Carmel Tanaka:Long time.
Michael Ross:You know Carmel, we're about to get to the end of the episode actually and I would say that I am.
Michael Ross:I had no idea actually about the story of Necat and the fact that you are related.
Michael Ross:We've been talking quite a lot but I didn't, I didn't know about that.
Michael Ross:And I think that like also the fact that it led you also like, you know, like there's a lot of pain in this word and we are recording it in the time of lots of pain and, and death and brutality and you know, it's like a bit Misha al Kuma from Holocaust to revival or from pain to change making.
Michael Ross:I had no idea.
Michael Ross:So actually I feel very privileged now because first of all I believe in it that if there's a pain, the best way is to do tikkun olam from that.
Michael Ross:Like to make the world to be a better place.
Michael Ross:Unfortunately we also now in times that we see how for some people activists that the position that they get to, they're not necessarily empowering ours, you know.
Michael Ross:And I think so that it's not something that can be taken as granted.
Michael Ross: e who don't know in Israel in: Michael Ross:I really remember that it was just around the week that my grandmother passed away.
Michael Ross:So it was like one week of being in the Shiva of my grandmother.
Michael Ross:And at the same time there was this horrible shooting to one of Tel Aviv's youth gay center, Barnoar, which was a youth club for teenagers who are LGBTQ plus.
Michael Ross:And up until today, this issue, this horrible crime was not completely discovered in terms of like, we.
Michael Ross:We still don't completely know who's the horrible person behind that.
Michael Ross:And there was a shooting there.
Michael Ross:Two of the volunteers there passed away and one of them is near cuts.
Michael Ross:So, yeah, I think it's.
Michael Ross:It's important to remember.
Michael Ross:It's important to remember.
Michael Ross:It's also important to.
Michael Ross:To do Tikkun out of.
Michael Ross:Out of the pain.
Michael Ross:So thank you, Carmel.
Michael Ross:I didn't know.
Carmel Tanaka:I was thinking about them a lot, by the way.
Michael Ross:Yeah.
Michael Ross:Yeah.
Carmel Tanaka:His last text message to me was just a few days before he was planning his wedding to Tamas.
Carmel Tanaka:And we all used to live together and give a time.
Carmel Tanaka:Mir was my closest cousin, not in blood relation, but in like our.
Carmel Tanaka:We were similar age and we lived together while I was studying in Tel Aviv.
Carmel Tanaka:And when I was already back in Vancouver, he knew that gay marriage was a possibility in Canada, so he and to.
Carmel Tanaka:To come to Vancouver to get married.
Carmel Tanaka:So his last text message to me was, how much are cell phone plans?
Michael Ross:Oh, not here.
Carmel Tanaka:And I said, highway robbery.
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah.
Michael Ross:Carmel talking from about pain and Tikkun, I think that you also have some very interesting story from Israel with some not only Jewish backgrounds and only Jewish feminists to open the door for you.
Michael Ross:Right?
Carmel Tanaka:Yeah.
Carmel Tanaka:I would say that we have a very unique relationship with an Israeli Palestinian family, the Mawasi family in Faradays near Zakhornyakov.
Carmel Tanaka:My mom would take a taxi from the Rekhava to the train from Benjamina to Zakroniakov.
Carmel Tanaka:And one day she.
Carmel Tanaka:Her taxi driver was rousing her a little bit because he knew that she clearly didn't recognize him, but he had recognized her.
Carmel Tanaka:When we went walking from our apartment to the moshav that has a swimming pool just beneath.
Carmel Tanaka:And when we arrived, it was a very funny scene because the swimming pool had just redone their tiles, but the person or the company laying down the tiles forgot to glue the tiles.
Carmel Tanaka:And so when we arrived, all the water had lifted all the tiles, and so all the tiles were floating.
Carmel Tanaka:And there was a whole group of people, the lifeguards, they're all from Far east, and they're all, we're all laughing hysterically because we came to swim, not realizing that this had happened.
Carmel Tanaka:And it was a funny moment, of course.
Carmel Tanaka:You know, we all chuckled and we're like, okay, I guess we'll come back another time.
Carmel Tanaka:So he remembered my mom and me.
Carmel Tanaka:And so he pretended to say, you know what?
Carmel Tanaka:I know exactly who you are.
Carmel Tanaka:You're Dalia, and your daughter is Carmel.
Carmel Tanaka:And my mom in the taxi couldn't, was very scared because, how does this person know who I am?
Carmel Tanaka:And once he realized that my mom was quite fearful of how does this person know who she is?
Carmel Tanaka:He explained that he was one of the guys at the swimming pool.
Carmel Tanaka:And then from that moment on, he became my mom's favorite taxi driver.
Carmel Tanaka:And they would do a little, you know, sea move to a full awful stand or to, you know, shawarma, and make detours on their way to the train station.
Carmel Tanaka:And then after some months of this, he invited my mom, time.
Carmel Tanaka:It's time for you to come for a Friday lunch with my family.
Carmel Tanaka:And my mom did.
Carmel Tanaka:Now, my mom comes from a very conservative leak food background, and so for her to do this, there was a big deal.
Carmel Tanaka:And from that moment on, our families became extremely close.
Carmel Tanaka:In fact, they're my mishpocha.
Carmel Tanaka:This is these.
Carmel Tanaka:These are the people that.
Carmel Tanaka:The first people that I actually texted on November 7, I mean, October 7, was this family just to make sure that they're okay.
Carmel Tanaka:And they're the people who pick us up from the airport when we come to visit.
Carmel Tanaka:I'm there more than I am with anybody else in Israel these days.
Carmel Tanaka:And so much so that I do think that this gives me a different perspective than even a lot of Israelis.
Carmel Tanaka:And I also used to live with them.
Carmel Tanaka:There was a time I lived in Faradays for six months.
Carmel Tanaka:And I know that I have not yet met another single Jewish Israeli woman to ever live inside a Palestinian Israeli village with unmarried single men in the household who have become my brothers.
Carmel Tanaka:And it was a very, very unique experience.
Carmel Tanaka:And I'm still honored to have had that experience.
Carmel Tanaka:It's given me perspective into a very different world that I would normally not have had the privilege to be a part of.
Carmel Tanaka:And it also showed me that there's more nuance than even previously.
Carmel Tanaka:It expanded my understanding of the conflict in many different ways.
Carmel Tanaka:I can go into all of the examples, everything from foraging with them for Meluki and Akub and porcupine and being told that it's illegal for them to forage these foods that their families have been foraging for centuries in the area.
Carmel Tanaka:And finding out from local Israeli environmentalists saying, well, at the rate that they're foraging and eating the porcupine, there won't be any of this left if they don't learn to conserve and to farm effectively.
Carmel Tanaka:So I see tensions between, you know, traditional way of life, but also how to sustain traditional ways of life.
Carmel Tanaka:And that's just one example on food.
Carmel Tanaka:My favorite would be, oh, a leg afin, the stuffed grape leaves.
Carmel Tanaka:And they make it fantastic.
Carmel Tanaka:But one particular pot, this one batch was so good.
Carmel Tanaka:And they start laughing.
Carmel Tanaka:I don't know why they're laughing at me eating it.
Carmel Tanaka:And I know.
Carmel Tanaka:And I was like, oh, no, what.
Carmel Tanaka:What meat did you put in here anyway?
Carmel Tanaka:They're like, no, it's not the meat, sweetie, it's the leaves.
Carmel Tanaka:And I had no idea that you could eat the leaves of the recafet, the sikliman plant, and that is the national Israeli state flower.
Carmel Tanaka:And I was like, bul, this is hilarious.
Carmel Tanaka:This is what I'm eating, and this is why they're laughing.
Carmel Tanaka:So this is what I got exposed to, and it was really important for me to have that experience.
Carmel Tanaka:And so when I hear the podcast Unapologetic, the third narrative, which is from the perspectives of various Israeli Palestinians, I actually can relate much more to what is being spoken there than any other podcast that I found on the topic discussing October 7th and the aftermath from that.
Carmel Tanaka:Because I do come from more than one world and I have experienced more than one world.
Michael Ross:And that's also what is so beautiful about this word.
Michael Ross:I can also personally relate to, as someone who grew up in the Galilee, many times for me, and I also come from a quite conservative family, and many times, actually, my Arab gay friends were my best friends because we could really understand each other, like.
Michael Ross:And life are much more complicated than a football game.
Michael Ross:And this kind of diversities are very, very important.
Michael Ross:And I think it also leads to the fact that there's a lot of responsibility to anything that we say.
Michael Ross:And for many people who see themselves as change makers, who deal with LGBT issues, but eventually they split the stuff into sides or football games, actually something that is really damaging and makes a lot of pain, actually, to those who care and deal with it.
Michael Ross:And with that, it's not.
Michael Ross:This is not for doing tikkun olam.
Michael Ross:This is not the real.
Michael Ross:At least the way I see it.
Michael Ross:Carmel, thank you very, very much.
Michael Ross:I really.
Michael Ross:I love you, dear.
Michael Ross:I'm so glad that we did that.
Michael Ross:And I hope that we gave some food for thought.
Michael Ross:So Shabbat shalom.
Michael Ross:Thank you very much.
